Re: Recent commentary: should we leave Afghanistan?

As always, Steve, you're "interesting reading" and I respect your brother's opinion. But I'm perplexed. "Degeneration to chaos because Al Qaeda will thrive in that environment." So? Is this bad, because the jihadists represent a "clear and present danger" to us? Because we seek revenge (or "justice") for bin Laden and the attacks on America? We put Karzai into power, and now are shocked to find out he's corrupt? (And who gets his really nice winter hats if he's taken from power?) As your brother points out, Afghanistan is not a "real nation"; it's a money-hole. I'm so confused.

The isolationist in me says to hell with Karzai and Afghanistan and all the other "stans" over there. But the realist in me says we don't operate in a vacuum, so is this an issue the League of Nations (or whatever they're calling it today) should deal with, if this Al Qaeda thing starts acting like it's something other than the lunatic fringe with machine guns and pickup trucks? Now that we're taking our shoes off at airports, we'll never have to face an attack similar to 2001, right? I know I've descended into sarcasm here, but seriously...us Madison liberals seem to be more in tune with Senator Feingold's suggestion that it IS indeed a money-hole, with infinitessimal return on "investment", and we ought to get out and do so with all deliberate speed.

Our stupid insistence that the "locals" actually pull the trigger on the shot which would have killed bin Laden cost us our best opportunity for revenge/justice/whatever, so why not get out, and put whatever "pullout dividend" there might be, into doing things which will truly increase Homeland Security (capital letters or not) and deal with better port security and cargo inspection.

I admire your brother's commitment to service, and respect his perspective on Afghanistan, but I remain unconvinced that it really is in our best long-term interests to stay on the same path.

/tjm

Re: Recent commentary: should we leave Afghanistan?

You words are well reasoned and valid. I cannot make a strong case for staying in Afghanistan. Oh, by the way, I am the former Marine brother. Nice to meet you. If we get out quickly, yes it will fall back into the chaos it was in throughout the 90s after the Soviets pulled out. The Taliban will eventually win, because they have serious drug money now (they disdained this in the 90s), and plenty of recruits from Pakistani madrasas. We can say, "So what? Let them screw up their country all they want!" Please believe me, I sympathize with this viewpoint. I am not giving a rah-rah USA rant here. I am looking at cold national interest. I worry about the resurgence of Al Qaeda. And to put this threat into perspective, they are not mere radicals with machine guns and pick-up trucks. They have websites and credit cards and cell phones and false passports and educated professionals willing to die for Allah. The 19 9-11 hijackers were all educated professionals, wearing Western clothes, with American girlfriends, going to nightclubs and driving nice cars. Until they got the word to GO.
Sure, we need to get the heck out of nation building. Senator Feingold is absolutely correct- it is a money hole. Modern nation building is little more than propping up petty dictators. In the last 40 years, the West has poured over two TRILLION dollars into Africa. What did it get us? Robert Mugabe et.al. But we do need to figure out what we will do to tamp down these animals. Pakistan is actually doing a bang-up job, but they need heavy help from us. I reiterate- cut the drug money in key conduits, keep up pressure on the Pakistani border, train and help the national security forces. And yes, we will need to keep a significant combat presence for those occasions when heavy handedness is in order.
Will this mean an endless war? Or an endless police action? Well, maybe it means a couple of DECADES, but not endless. I really am not smart enough to know what our military and intelligence people are planning. maybe they have some really cool tricks up their collective sleeves. I just hope we don't simply dash for the door.
On to other related topics. What about Somalia and Yemen? They are filled with jihadists just itching to kill YOU. And how long will we tolerate the delightful people's Republic of China very kindly supplying the various Islamic groups? What? But aren't they fighting their own Islamic Uighur insurgency in Xinjiang? Yes, and yes they are selling arms to Taliban and Al Qaeda. Arms money is a sweet way to make an income. Very entrepreneurial.
The world is a terribly dangerous place nowadays, far more so than when the Soviet Union and the U.S. were ready to incinerate the planet. Back in those days, at least we could count on the self interest of the Soviets to keep them from getting too crazy. Proxy wars and quiet assassinations were about it, along with the occasional broken arrow incident. But now we have people who truly have no regard for life. None. They are alien beings, not merely bad guys.
Just my two cents worth.

Re: Recent commentary: should we leave Afghanistan?

Well-said, Dan, and thank you for the response. Nice to "meet" you, too...your brother's been a pal for decades.

/tjm